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48 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1999, Canada

Journals of the Senate

Issue 157

Monday, September 13, 1999
4:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wilson,

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, *Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wilson, ,

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

________________________________________

A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the deferred division on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Ghitter to the motion for the third reading of Bill C-32.

After debate, The Speaker reserved his decision.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kirby, seconded by the Honourable Senator Sibbeston, for the third reading of Bill C-78, An Act to establish the Public Sector Pension Investment Board, to amend the Public Service Superannuation Act, the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act, the Defence Services Pension Continuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Pension Continuation Act, the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act and the Canada Post Corporation Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Taylor, seconded by the Honourable Senator Finnerty, for the third reading of Bill C-32, An Act respecting pollution prevention and the protection of the environment and human health in order to contribute to sustainable development.

Debate.

SPEAKER'S RULING

In his comments, Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton indicates that he believes the motion that was passed is a hoist. I have looked into the authorities and I find that, indeed, a hoist motion, if it is a hoist motion, is a debatable motion in any case. However, if you look at the motion that was made on Friday, it is after debate, in amendment. The Honourable Senator Ghitter moved, seconded by Honourable Senator Cochrane:

That the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be read a third time on Tuesday, September 21, 1999.

Therefore, that motion was moved as an amendment to what was then a debatable motion, and following the practices that we have would be a debatable amendment and, therefore, one that can also be deferred insofar as a vote is concerned.

I rule that the motion in amendment is in order.

DEFERRED DIVISION

At 5:30 p.m., and pursuant to Rule 66(3), the Senate proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Ghitter to the motion of the Honourable Senator Taylor, seconded by the Honourable Senator Finnerty, for the third reading of Bill C-32, An Act respecting pollution prevention and the protection of the environment and human health in order to contribute to sustainable development.

The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Ghitter, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane, that the Bill be not now read a third time, but that it be read a third time on Tuesday, September 21, 1999.

The motion in amendment was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk , Atkins, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Doody, Forrestall, Grimard, Kelly, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Murray, Nolin, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Rossiter, Simard, Spivak, Tkachuk-25

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Austin, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kenny, Kirby, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin, Poy, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Ruck, Sparrow, Stewart, Taylor, Watt, Wilson-47

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Nil

The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Taylor, seconded by the Honourable Senator Finnerty, for the third reading of Bill C-32, An Act respecting pollution prevention and the protection of the environment and human health in order to contribute to sustainable development.

After debate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator Spivak moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended

(a) in the Preamble,

(i) on page 1, by replacing line 19 with the following:

"knowledges the need to phase out the generation and use of the";

(ii) on page 2, by replacing lines 44 to 47 with the following:

"versity through pollution prevention and the control and management of any adverse effects of the use and release of toxic substances, products of biotechnology, pollutants and other wastes, and the virtual", and

(iii) on page 3, by deleting lines 1 to 5;

(b) in clause 2, on page 4,

(i) by replacing lines 17 to 19 with the following:

"from any adverse effects of the use and release of toxic substances, products of biotechnology, pollutants and other wastes;", and

(ii) by deleting lines 20 to 23;

(c) in clause 65, on page 39, by replacing lines 31 to 33 with the following:

"(3) When taking steps to achieve the virtual elimination of a substance, the Ministers";

(d) in clause 77, on page 49,

(i) by replacing lines 7 and 8 with the following:

"subsection (4), virtual elimination.", and

(ii) by replacing lines 38 to 40 with the following:

"the Ministers shall propose virtual elimination of the substance under this Act.";

(e) in clause 79,

(i) on page 51, by replacing lines 40 to 42 with the following:

"sure, as confirmed or amended, is virtual elimination in respect of a substance, the", and

(ii) on page 52, by replacing lines 4 to 6 with the following:

"proposed actions in respect of virtual elimination of the substance in relation";

(f) in clause 91, on page 64,

(i) by replacing lines 8 and 9 with the following:

"Ministers is virtual elimination shall spec-", and

(ii) by replacing lines 27 and 28 with the following:

"with respect to virtual elimination and sum-";

(g) in clause 106, on page 79,

(i) by replacing lines 16 and 17 with the following:

"this section, the Minister and, where appropriate, the Minister of Health is responsible for determining",

(ii) by replacing lines 22 to 34 with the following:

"(a) if the Minister and, where appropriate, the Minister of Health, determine that the requirements referred to in paragraph (6)(a) are met by or under an Act of Parliament referred to in that paragraph, or regulations made under that Act, the Minister and, where appropriate, the Minister of Health may by order add to Schedule 4 the name of that Act or those regulations, as the case may be; and,

(b) if the Minister and, where appropriate, the Minister of Health, determine", and

(iii) by replacing line 38 with the following:

"in Schedule 4, the Minister and, where appropriate, the Minister of Health may";

(h) in clause 115, on page 87, by replacing lines 24 to 27 with the following:

"Parliament that in the opinion of the Minister or, where appropriate, the Minister of Health provides for

(a) notice to be given before the manufacture, import or sale of the living organism;

(b) an assessment of whether the living organism is toxic or capable of becoming toxic; and

(c) the regulation or control of any potential risks to the environment, or its biological diversity, and human health, identified by that assessment."; and

(i) in clause 347,

(i) on page 220, by deleting the heading preceding line 5 and lines 5 to 13, and

(ii) by renumbering clauses 348 to 355.1 as clauses 347 to 355 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robertson, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Perrault, P.C.:

That, pursuant to Rule 39, not more than a further six hours of debate be allocated to dispose of third reading of Bill C-32, An Act respecting pollution prevention and the protection of the environment and human health in order to contribute to sustainable development;

That when debate comes to an end or when the time provided for the debate has expired, the Speaker shall interrupt, if required, any proceedings then before the Senate and put forthwith and successively every question necessary to dispose of the third reading of the said Bill; and

That any recorded vote or votes on the said question be taken in accordance with the provisions of Rule 39(4).

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Spivak, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane.

After debate, With leave of the Senate and notwithstanding Rule 39(7), In amendment, the Honourable Senator Cochrane moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robertson, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended:

(a) in the preamble, on page 2, by adding after line 34 the following:

"Whereas the Government of Canada recognizes the special susceptibility of children and the need to protect them by applying a margin of safety in the environment and health legislation;".

(b) by adding, on page 16, the following after line 8:

"Children's Environmental Health Protection Commission

10.1 (1) There is hereby established a commission to be known as the Children's Environmental Health Protection Commission consisting of a Commissioner, a Deputy Commissioner and such other members as are from time to time appointed by the Governor in Council.

(2) The Governor in Council shall appoint as members of the Commission persons who have knowledge and experience in children's environmental health protection issues.

(3) The Commissioner and the Deputy Commissioner are each full-time members of the Commission and the other members may be appointed as full-time or part-time members.

(4) A member of the Commission shall be appointed to hold office during good behaviour for a term not exceeding 5 years and may be removed for cause by the Governor in Council.

(5) A member of the Commission is eligible to be re-appointed on the expiration of a first or subsequent term of office.

(6) The objects of the Commission include

(a) to determine the existing body of knowledge and identify key information gaps in children's environmental health issues;

(b) to ensure that current scientific information is peer-reviewed and widely disseminated;

(c) to identify opportunities for co-ordination with branches of Government, including the Department of Justice and Agriculture and Agri-food;

(d) to ensure that all current and future health and environment standards protect children, with an adequate margin of safety;

(e) to develop and use separate assessments of risks to children and adults;

(f) to identify environmental pollutants commonly used or found in areas that are accessible to children; and

(g) to establish guidelines to help reduce and eliminate exposure of children to environmental pollutants in areas accessible to children.".

With leave of the Senate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator Cochrane moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robertson, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended in Clause 44, on page 28, by adding the following after line 24:

"(5) The Ministers shall conduct research or studies relating to a safer environment for children, including information regarding the following:

(a) identify environmental contaminants commonly used or found in areas that are accessible to children;

(b) create a scientifically-peer-reviewed list of substances (environmental contaminants) identified under (a) with known, probable, or suspected health risks to children;

(c) create a scientifically-peer-reviewed list of safer-for-children substances and products recommended by the Ministers, or the Governor in council, for use in areas that are accessible to children to minimize potential risks to children from exposure to environmental contaminants;

(d) establish guidelines to help reduce and eliminate exposure of children to environmental contaminants in areas accessible to children, including advice on how to establish an integrated environmental contaminant reduction program;

(e) create a right-to-know information kit that includes a summary of helpful guidance to families, such as the information created under (c) the guidelines established under (d), information on the potential health effects of environmental contaminants, practical suggestions on how parents may reduce their children's exposure to environmental contaminants, and other relevant information, as determined by the Ministers, or the Governor in Council;

(f) make all information created pursuant to this subsection available to federal, provincial, territorial and aboriginal governments and the public; and

(g) review and update the lists created under (b) and (c) at least every five years.

After debate, With leave of the Senate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator Nolin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Spivak, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended

1. in Clause 6, on page 12

(a) by replacing line 9 with the following:

"each of the provinces;"; and

(b) by adding the following after line 30:

"(d) one representative for all Métis selected by the Métis National Council.".

2. in the preamble, in the English version, on page 2 by replacing line 1 with the following:

"postponing effective measures to prevent".

The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Forrestall, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Murray, Nolin, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Rossiter, Simard, Spivak, Tkachuk, Wilson-22

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kenny, Kirby, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin, Poy, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Ruck, Sibbeston, Sparrow, Stewart, Taylor, Watt-46

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Nil

The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Cochrane, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robertson, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended: